...
written by Fred , July 24, 2007

I couldn't disagree with you more. We are called to be Christlike. There is a big difference in "hanging out" with sinners and putting His money into companies that support activities that are clearly, and openly, scripturally wrong.

I have used the "Wall of Shame" and have tried to honor God with my investing.

Your reasoning is way off and if you were able to convince anyone with it, it was was because they wanted to be convinced.

This is a no brainer.

...
written by Brian , August 17, 2007

I enjoy your honesty and opinion on the moral investing topic. Legalism would definitely not fit my view of the hall of shame. If any guilt is brought on by viewing it and examining what you might hold in your portfolio, there might very well be good reason (not and endorsment of any particular investment). The hall of shame is very important to me, and a great beginning tool to looking into what companies might fail the moral investing test.

As far as moral investing personally, I disagree with your stance. I view it as I view my Christian walk. I can never be holy and perfect in this lifetime, but I will never stop trying to achieve it. Same would go with my investing, I might not be able to achieve a totally clean investment, but that does not stop me from trying.

Holding companies that are actively involved in supporting abortion, pornography, homosexuality, etc. is just another way of me supporting and funding that activity. Will I stop shopping at Walmart, or not buy a lightbulb, no, some things just cannot be avoided. At least I can control in some sense what I invest in with regards to the market.

Keep up with the commentary....very insightful.

...
written by Mark , February 04, 2008

Some things to consider regarding the five points you made above.

1. That Jesus did not draw a holy bubble around himself and that he interacted with prostitutes and tax collectors is true. But he did not make money from their actions. We cannot forget the fact that when we buy stock in a company we quite literally own a piece of that company and profit from its actions. Not investing in a company for moral reasons is not just a means of quiet protest against the actions of that company but a means of keeping ourselves away from those actions. In Ephesians 5:11 Paul tells us "Have nothing to do with the deeds of darkness but rather expose them". That is more along the lines of the intent of the Hall of Shame.

2. Financially, a fund mirroring the S&P could be a good investment however, it is your personal moral convictions and walk with christ that need to be considered before investing in some of those companies. In March of 2007 the company I work for screened the S&P for biblically clean companies and found that at the time about 280 were "clean". Sense then we have started developing funds using only clean stocks that mirror most of the major indexes (excluding the DJI. It only had 1 clean stock).

3. This one goes back to part 1. Jesus interacted with prostitutes and sinners. Sense Jesus was the only perfect person who lived, we can assume that if he ever bought anything in his life, it was from sinners. If that is so and Jesus never sinned then it cannot be a sin to do so (sorry to sound so legalistic, I know it was one of your problems with the Hall of Shame but stop and see if this is true). Paul tells us in 2 Cor 6:14 "Do not be unequally yoked together with unbelievers. For what fellowship has righteousness with lawlessness? And what communion has light with darkness?" In a simple purchase transaction we have not "yoked" ourselves with unbelievers, however, by partnering with them to own a business not only have agreed to participate in the actions of that business, but we have given ourselves a minority vote in the control of that business therefore unequally yoking ourselves to the other owners.

4. It is true that our govenment does many unbiblical things with the taxes that Jesus tells us to pay. But that is on their shoulders. We do not own a part of the government nor are we responsible for it's actions. Do not forget that we are to obey the laws of our leaders and that God is the one who places kings on their thrones and removes them. I do not believe, that when I give an account for my life, that I will have to answer for the actions of my president. I will however have to answer for the actions I participated in, directly and indirectly.

5. I agree with you completely on this point. We have to remember that just because we don't understand somthing does not mean it is not a stumbling block for others. That goes for companies as well though. Just because somthing seems legalistic or you have a suspision of somthing you cannot assume it is not the way God intended it.

I do not usually post to these things but I felt I needed to do so in this case. Not only because I have been working in the Faith Based Investing and financial planning arena for a number of years but also because I have seen many christian investors who did not participate in FBI be convicted over time. There are many who have not as well. Each mans calling is different.

However, my father is on the board of the NACFC (National Association of Christian Financial Consultants) with Art Ally (the director of The Timothy Plan) and knows him to be a true man of faith and godly intentions. I thought this should be known so that suspision does not turn into assumption.

Sorry this was so long.....I hope it helpd with understanding. (Sorry about the spelling as well)

...
written by dmj4rep , May 06, 2008

Why are you investing in any of this at all? Why is it a whole lot of Christians are claiming they believe Jesus' return is Imminent but are investing for your own futures instead of taking care of the people God loves who have needs now? Some might suggest it is a lack of faith because we really believe, deep down, that in fact God would not take care of us so we need to build our storehouses.

Jesus was using their collections to feed the hungry in real time not eventually through their retirement funds and then taking a small portion of that. Get real. We're playing games with God's money but excusing the life out of it because of ah... hmm hard to think of a good reason when brothers and sisters around the world are still naked and hungry. Happy stock picking.

...
written by J. Bonynge , May 20, 2008

I feel your frustration. It doesn't make much sense to me for me to have so much and others to have so little. How can I justify my wealth? I am using my wealth, (It's God's planet,so actually it's God's wealth that he has given me stewardship of) to further His Kingdom here on Earth. The checks I most enjoy writing each month are to Samaritan's Purse (samaritanspurse.org) and to my local church. Although I still have to pay my mortgage and utilities too. If I gave all my money away today, I would not have any to give tomorrow, and I am raising a family of people that will continue to give when I am gone.

You do know that I invest in stocks but you don't know that I tirelessly teach 5th graders everyday in a public school. I drive a 95 Honda Civic with 200,000 miles on it.
I live in a 850 square foot house with my wife and son. I'm not playing games with God's money. I'm wisely investing it so I can continue to build His Kingdom.

Thank you for your comment. If you find a great stock, let me know.

...
written by A.H. , June 06, 2008

I am about to make a big investment and have been looking on the internet for guidance on how to do it ethically. Thanks to all the above for your very helpful comments (including the long ones!)
A.H.

...
written by BW , September 10, 2008

One area that has not been discussed: buying stocks often gives people voting privileges, and companies are required to provide some time during their stockholder meetings for proposals by stockholders. Some people have already used this opportunity to express a desire for change in company policy and been effective at it, especially in the environmental movement. Would this not also be an effective way to engage the corporate culture in a Christ-like way for real change? This would be true values investing.